AAS Advice wanted

[triggernigha]

To you experienced users, i would like to pick your brains........

i have been doing my homework, alot of homework, but i would like to hear from you what you have found to be the best substances for a complete first time cycle - including dosage, run times, pct and what you should have on hand if things start to go wrong.

i would really appreciate your input, not an answer of "do your research and post what you want to take and well crit it" - i already researched but i would prefer to hear what you found good without influencing your thoughts with what i have read/learned before i post what sounds good to me.

THE GOAL:

achieve realistic, significant & RETAINABLE increase in LBM without extreme water retention - my thoughts are that i dont want to ballon out with water and then shrink excessively once 'off' and the water goes

the gains made must be retainable, i know i said this before but that is important, therefore i must be able to keep them without needing to eat excessively when finished - i know the bigger you are the more you need to eat but there is a limit, esp financially, normal daily consumption is approx 3600 - 4000cals made up of good foods - how much do you recommend to consume when 'on' for bulking?

i do not see this as a quick fix, but as another step in my development, also because i am talking about it now, does not mean i feel i am ready to make that step yet, im just paving the way.

hope you can share

[muscle_n_blood]

Keep everything simple. Best first cycle is test only... that can be enanthate, cypionate, or sustenon. Propionate works also, but it's a lot of shots for a newbie. 2 shots a week is enough to deal with. Sustenon is more fun (but more expensive) for a first time because it kicks in a litle quicker. After a few weeks you won't know the difference between enanthate, cyp, or any other test.

Another good thing about a test cycle is that any potential side effects and pct can be handled with just nolvadex.

A good cycle would consist of test 400 mg/week or so for 12 weeks.
If you feel you are getting excessive bloat or any tingling/burning/pain in your nipples, start 10 mg nolvadex right away till the symptoms disappear.

2 weeks after your last shot (one week if you run sustenon) do a 4 week nolva taper of 40-30-20-10.
Run 3 grams of tribulus a day during and after your cycle, right through pct.

This is a very basic program, and if you run this, keep us posted throughout so you can make any changes on the fly, if need be. We all respond differently, and your first cycle will always be an experiment of sorts. Keep a log of your progress and responses. It will help you on future cycles.

As far as food goes, I probably eat 25% more when gaining while on.

[p.s.]

MnB has given you the best advice you could ask for in regards to a first time cycle. The only thing I would add is that you taper the test for a few weeks while on the nolva and then after the test taper taper the nolva. Run the trib well past PCT and you should maintain most of your gains.

Remember that after the cycle you may experience some strength loss, but I suggest that you continue to train as hard as possible and keep the diet high in protein and EFAs.

[triggernigha]

Great, thanks for the advice guys - thats the idea i had in my head also, but excellent to firm

now the questions! (sorry)

i have male pattern baldness - , im going bald on top(slowly) - was looking at the effect test has on this and came across Propecia - what are your thoughts on how effective this is at stopping the accelerated effects of hair loss from test (throught the conversion of test to DHT) and would it be prudent to run this for the duration of the cycle and PCT to aleviate the extra loss of hair? (How high do you think the rate of hair loss would be when 'on' compaired to when 'off' test at the suggested dosage?)

OR

Would the stoppage of test to DHT conversion caused by Propecia significantly increase the risk of gyno therfore increase the need for either an aromatase inhibitor or a higher dosage of an estrogen blocker(Nolva)?

Apart from the nolva taper and during PCT, would it be worthwhile to run nolva daily for the duration of the cycle to reduce estrogen affinity, therefore reducing the overall bloat or should this be used only when the symptoms noted by MnB become apparent?

Why has the suggestion to run an aromatase inhibitor not been made, such as Arimidex? I thought this would greatly reduce the conversion of test to estrogen (according to what i have read) and would be of benifit? The reason i ask is because every artical i have read has stated how strong an androgen Test is, and that is has a high conversion rate, i thought minimising this would be a good idea to reduce chances of gyno, water retention etc but i am unsure - do the side effects of Arimidex outweight the benifit or does the use of Nolva negate the need for an aromatase inhibitor such as Arimidex on a test only cycle?

Basically I am wishing to do my best to limit side effects, as you can tell! But need a little more clarification from your experience/knowledge

Thanks again

[p.s.]

Ok first off running AAS will always have the possiblity of sides, and this (of course) is true of any drug so you must make a concious decission with regards to risks of sides. Now as far as the hair goes if you do have MPB in the family and you currently show signs of this condition then of course using AAS will exacerbate the problem/condition no matter what steps you take to avoid it. So by all means run propecia etc but remember that you may still continue to lose hair so the choice is up to you.

Now as for the anti-e or estrogen blockers go IMO unless gyno is of major concern ie one has suffered with this in the past or as a teen I would have nolva on hand but save it for PCT or if sides/gyno start to appear. To make the greatest possible gains in muscle when using AAS one needs some estrogen circulating in their system. Bloat (water retention) can be easily combated by keeping carbs under tight control, and by ensuring that one is drinking substantial amounts of water throughout the day (up to 2 gallons). Arimidex or nolva are of course needed for pre-contest cycles as the plan is not so much to build at this time but to preserve muscle and to develope a very hard/granite like appearance to ones physique.

As far as test having a high conversion rate to DHT and or estrogen goes this is highly individual, as some of us have no issue with such sides no matter what the dosage is that we run while others see sides on the smallest of dosages. I suggest that for a first cycle of test 500 mgs per week should be the absolute max dosage and over the course of many cycles that the dosage be increased very slowly (this has a lot to do with AR availability as well as the possibility of sides).

[triggernigha]

Thanks very much p.s. I kinda wanted to play devils advocate with my questions to see it from both sides

I will have to think very carefully before i take this step (of course) - your and MnB's advice has been great

I think the Sust will be the weapon of choice when/if I do - amazing how the ancillary drugs are the most expensive of the cycle! That propecia is big bucks.

My friend has just started an oral only course (in my opinion, not a good idea - but thats upto him) He is only 21, played semi pro sports for years but only weightlifted for around 1 year and he said to me "Everyone else here is taking stuff" (talking bout our gym which is not true - before he came we had a much higher percentage of users, in the region of around 80 - 90%, it was a zoo)

He is taking Naposim (this is his first cycle) - im not sure what else, if anything. His strength has rocketed but doent seem prepared in his thoughts about AAS usage and has been led by the advice of others rather than doing some research - unfortunately i do not know enough about AAS to help/offer useful advice. Will keep you posted on if his liver explodes.............

Anyway thanks again - maybe one day ill hang with the big boys......

[triggernigha]

p.s. I forgot to ask, when you say taper the test while on the nolva what kind of regime should i be looking at?

Do you mean start to taper the test on week 9 of the 12 week cycle (eg wk 9 300mg, wk 10 200mg, wk 11 100mg, wk 12 100mg) and for that last 4 weeks of the 12 week cycle i should take nolva at 40mg/day?

OR

do you mean stick with the max weekly test dosage for the full 12 weeks (eg 400mg/week) then from the 13th week taper the test down for 4 weeks while running the nolva at 40 mg/day then from the 17th week taper the nolva down from 40mg/day to 10/mg day on week 20?

I am slightly confused - as i am sure are to by now!!!!

[triggernigha]

Doing a little further reading and seems some people are saying sustanon is not a good choice because the fast acting esters/test will pass out of the body very quickly, within 2-3 days and will leave only a small amount of test in the form of the slow acting esters behind meaning blood levels will fluxuate much more than if using a slow acting one such as enanthate - from your knowledge does this sound reasonable ? if so, would injecting sust twice a week(but not increasing the weekly dosage) combat this and help keep blood levels more even?

also with something like enanthate you will be getting more actual test per mg than with sustanon since there are more esters within the sust taking up more of the total weight- TRUE? If so, would the benifit be noticable by using enanthate instead of sust? Are the sides worse with enanthate?

OR DOES IT REALLY MATTER SINCE AS MnB SAYS AFTER A FEW WEEKS YOU WILL NOT NOTICE ANY DIFFERENCE

[muscle_n_blood]

You will get a zillion different opinions. Many will make sense, some none at all. This goes back to what P.S. and I both said... we all respond differently, and we have to learn how our bodies respond to what. That is why simplicity is so key on the first cycle. Once you are certain exactly how you can respond to test only, then, if you add something else next time, you will have a much better idea of what is doing what. It takes time and experience to get the most out of AAS useage. You can (and probably will) waste some time and money, not to mention risking side effects unneccessarily in finding out what works best for you. Most of us do.
Other methods will work besides what we suggest. Arimidex works fine, but it is better for prevention of side effects rather than cure, and it inhibits estrogen to the point it can restrict your gains. Still, lots of guys swear by it. Others  wouldn't think of doing PCT without clomid. I don't use it at all anymore. It goes on and on.......

Keep it simple. Keep us posted.

[triggernigha]

Thanks again MnB, much appreciated. I understand the need to keep it simple, i am just trying to be as well educated as i can before making the commitment. There are loads of opinions but you guys seem to present the best info, alot of other people just seem to want to overdo it


p.s. if you could just clarify the taper for me, that would be great - i am having a little trouble finding out about how to taper correctly

Enough for now, i feel like i have written an essay - sorry for all the reading

[p.s.]

The taper is very simple...

week one, 1/2 the regular dose of test
week two, cut the dose in 1/2 again
week three, cut the dose again by 1/2
week four, cut it in half one last time

So if you're using say 500 mgs of test as your cycle then the first week of the taper would be 250 mgs, second week 125 mgs, third week 75 mgs, and the final week would be at most 50 mgs....and then off. When you run the nolva as part of the PCT once the test taper is done then taper the nolva over a couple of weeks and this can be done in a quicker fashion as nolva is used daily (unllike test injections), so 2-3 weeks tapering nolva will work just fine. Now tribulus should be continued from the start of the cycle to well past the nolva taper, and if you're a bit older it wouldn't hurt to just remain "on" between cycles etc for general health.

I hope that this helps a bit.

And as a side note MnB and I combined probably have 60+ years in the sport, so ya we both have a wealth of experience, but of course our advice (at times) tends to fly in the face of what other less experienced BBs may say.

[triggernigha]

thanks again man, appreciate it

i assume then the test taper would start at week 9 of a 12 week cycle, not at week 13 for 4 weeks after the 12 week cycle at full strength.

[p.s.]

thanks again man, appreciate it

i assume then the test taper would start at week 9 of a 12 week cycle, not at week 13 for 4 weeks after the 12 week cycle at full strength.

Nope week 13 is the start of the taper, but if you've only got enough test for the cycle then ya you may have to start the taper at week 10 or 11. You're only gonna need a couple of CCs to accomplish a taper so you'll be able to run the cycle longer than 9 weeks with a taper.

[triggernigha]

trust me to get it ass to tit

thanks man

[triggernigha]

What do you think of using 250mg a week of test e instead of 400mg?

since it is the first time, would there be the same potential for LBM gains?